Help #32
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lseeman
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what is a "non-numerical value for a number"? |
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"For each of the above conform that a sufficient technique has been used to supply additional support" is not a valid test. This means that ONLY documented sufficient techniques can be used to meet this SC. The test has to be technique independent. That is -- the validity of the technique is determined by the TECHNIQUES ability to meet the SC. As written this test is therefor circular. |
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This is not meant to be a valid test. That was NOT what we were asked to provide. This section was intended to discuss testability issue, such as if tools would be needed, and how people could know when they were done with the criteria.
I think Andrew and Josh had said that testing against a technique probably would be enough.
All the best
Lisa Seeman
LinkedIn, Twitter
…---- On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 03:50:16 +0200 GreggVan<notifications@github.com> wrote ----
"For each of the above conform that a sufficient technique has been used to supply additional support" is not a valid test. This means that ONLY documented sufficient techniques can be used to meet this SC. The test has to be technique independent. That is -- the validity of the technique is determined by the TECHNIQUES ability to meet the SC. As written this test is therefor circular.
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We had all the sufficient techniques as part of the SC. That made it clear what was needed. We were asked to move them to the techniques section and we could test against them. (Of course we can move it back if the WG prefer. ). We also split it into a few Success criteria.
Original wording was:
Provided content and information that help users understand the content
For icons and jargon:
All icons and jargon have a short explanation available Where a standard mechanism exists for the platform or technologies it should be used.(COGA Techniques 2.7. )(removed to technique: Short tooltips on all icons and jargon that clarify the meaning are provided.. )
For content relating to numbers and complex information
Charts or graphics are provided where they aid the comprehension of complex information (COGA Techniques 2.7.3 )
Tables are provided where they aid the comprehension of information
Where an understanding of math is not a primary requirement for using this content. Reinforce numbers with non-numerical values, e.g., Very Cold, Cold, Cool, Mild, Warm, Hot, Very Hot.
For content with more then 200 words
Provide a summary. For pieces of content with less then 200 words the heading may act as a summary.
The content owner identifies at least two keywords that aid comprehension for the user and keywords are programmatic determinable and emphasized in the modality of the user.
For key content and call out boxes
Symbols are provided to help the user identify key content including: types of contact information, types of help, types of main functions, warnings, key points,errors, system messages, notes, definitions, more information , table of content and site map, file types, search. Where a standard mechanism exists for the platform or technologies it should be used.
For events
Enable the user to set a reminder for date and time sensitive events. Reminders should be set only at the users request and the user should be able to personalize the reminder method. Where a standard mechanism exists for the platform or technologies it should be used
For forms and non standard controls
Where a standard mechanism for the platform or technologies exist for context sensitive help it should be used. (Simple search forms are excluded.)
Instructions should be available for non standard controls
All the best
Lisa Seeman
LinkedIn, Twitter
…---- On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 03:50:16 +0200 GreggVan<notifications@github.com> wrote ----
"For each of the above conform that a sufficient technique has been used to supply additional support" is not a valid test. This means that ONLY documented sufficient techniques can be used to meet this SC. The test has to be technique independent. That is -- the validity of the technique is determined by the TECHNIQUES ability to meet the SC. As written this test is therefor circular.
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A non-numerical value is a value that does not rely on understanding numerical concepts and is not expressed in numbers
Note that we ONLY require it where an understanding of mathematics is not a primary requirement for using this content. So if something can only be expressed as a number it is not required to provide an alternative.
Examples of were providing a non-numeric alternative is doable is for something like
" 98% of people agreed that..." This could have an alternative of " "almost all people agreed that " Then people with dyscalculia can also understand the content.
All the best
Lisa Seeman
LinkedIn, Twitter
…---- On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 03:47:43 +0200 GreggVan<notifications@github.com> wrote ----
what is a "non-numerical value for a number"?
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Ah Thanks
gregg
… On Dec 15, 2016, at 4:35 AM, Lisa Seeman ***@***.***> wrote:
A non-numerical value is a value that does not rely on understanding numerical concepts and is not expressed in numbers
Note that we ONLY require it where an understanding of mathematics is not a primary requirement for using this content. So if something can only be expressed as a number it is not required to provide an alternative.
Examples of were providing a non-numeric alternative is doable is for something like
" 98% of people agreed that..." This could have an alternative of " "almost all people agreed that " Then people with dyscalculia can also understand the content.
All the best
Lisa Seeman
LinkedIn, Twitter
---- On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 03:47:43 +0200 ***@***.***> wrote ----
what is a "non-numerical value for a number"?
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Hmmm
I think you missed the point.
Sufficient techniques are EXAMPLES of things that are sufficient. But you must be able to test an SC WITHOUT relying on any example technique. Otherwise the ONLY way to satisfy the SC is the technique — and we never say that our techniques are the only way — just one way.
So saying that passing a technique is the test — is not a valid approach to testing an SC. It needs to be testable independent of any technique.
gregg
… On Dec 15, 2016, at 4:12 AM, Lisa Seeman ***@***.***> wrote:
We had all the sufficient techniques as part of the SC. That made it clear what was needed. We were asked to move them to the techniques section and we could test against them. (Of course we can move it back if the WG prefer. ). We also split it into a few Success criteria.
Original wording was:
Provided content and information that help users understand the content
For icons and jargon:
All icons and jargon have a short explanation available Where a standard mechanism exists for the platform or technologies it should be used.(COGA Techniques 2.7. )(removed to technique: Short tooltips on all icons and jargon that clarify the meaning are provided.. )
For content relating to numbers and complex information
Charts or graphics are provided where they aid the comprehension of complex information (COGA Techniques 2.7.3 )
Tables are provided where they aid the comprehension of information
Where an understanding of math is not a primary requirement for using this content. Reinforce numbers with non-numerical values, e.g., Very Cold, Cold, Cool, Mild, Warm, Hot, Very Hot.
For content with more then 200 words
Provide a summary. For pieces of content with less then 200 words the heading may act as a summary.
The content owner identifies at least two keywords that aid comprehension for the user and keywords are programmatic determinable and emphasized in the modality of the user.
For key content and call out boxes
Symbols are provided to help the user identify key content including: types of contact information, types of help, types of main functions, warnings, key points,errors, system messages, notes, definitions, more information , table of content and site map, file types, search. Where a standard mechanism exists for the platform or technologies it should be used.
For events
Enable the user to set a reminder for date and time sensitive events. Reminders should be set only at the users request and the user should be able to personalize the reminder method. Where a standard mechanism exists for the platform or technologies it should be used
For forms and non standard controls
Where a standard mechanism for the platform or technologies exist for context sensitive help it should be used. (Simple search forms are excluded.)
Instructions should be available for non standard controls
All the best
Lisa Seeman
LinkedIn, Twitter
---- On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 03:50:16 +0200 ***@***.***> wrote ----
"For each of the above conform that a sufficient technique has been used to supply additional support" is not a valid test. This means that ONLY documented sufficient techniques can be used to meet this SC. The test has to be technique independent. That is -- the validity of the technique is determined by the TECHNIQUES ability to meet the SC. As written this test is therefor circular.
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Hi Gregg |
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Assigned to Jan McSorley - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/SC_Managers_Phase1 |
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should we brake this up into many success cryteria suc as supply a summary for long content |
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Just to clarify. this used to be one very long SC. The techniques were how to meet it for different content. D we prefer
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should we change the short name from "3.3.5 Help: " |
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@lseeman I don't see a GH username for Jan here. Is there a PR ready for this one or do you need more time? |
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Jan, can you answer this one as well. thanks
All the best
Lisa Seeman
LinkedIn, Twitter
…---- On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 19:41:12 +0200 joshueoconnor<notifications@github.com> wrote ----
@lseeman I don't see a GH username for Jan here. Is there a PR ready for this one or do you need more time?
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My username is jmcsorle and I have not made a pull request on this yet. There is still some discussion that needs to be resolved. TPG has some suggestions that we need to evaluate as well. |
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@jmcsorle thats fine - thanks. |
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based on gregg's comment on the lst: |
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note that Long Documents and Complex Information is defined above explanatorily content and information is content that presents the information in a different way or provided additional detail that helps more people understand the content |
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a few thoughts / questions
thanks for note about Long Documents and Complex Information being defined
?? “content and information” — sounds like two different things — but isn't content information?
what content besides information are you requiring the author to provide?
it looks like I can meet this SC by providing a single word or sentence. You ask for “information” or “content and information” to be provided but you do not say how much or what it must do. So I have no idea what you mean I should provide or how much. just that it “helps” to some degree
THIS MAY BE FINE. in fact this may be very good. We require them to provide SOMETHING but we don’t try to say how much.. so ANYTHING is sufficient — so there is no testability problem. As long as everyone agrees that SOMETHING is provided - no matter how ineffectual - it is very testable. If we try to go beyond and say how much or of what quality we get in trouble.
this is the same strategy used for WCAG 2.0 SC 1.1 We say that text must be provided but we don’t say it has to be good. just what its purpose is. and you do here
this also makes it less controversial — and it therefore makes it easier to get in. We can never require quality - because it is relative and opinion. But we can get this on the map as being important and then fight over time to get it good by providing examples and tools.
non-numerical values is also defines somewhere — yes?
I suggest you BOLD and ITALICS and provide a link for all words that are in the glossary so that anyone reading this knows that those ambiguous words are all defined. Save you a lot of comments on vagueness.
Best
gregg
… On Feb 7, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Lisa Seeman ***@***.***> wrote:
based on greags comment on the lst:
Content and information is provided that helps users understand complex information, long documents, numerical information, relative and cardinal directions (North, South, East, and West), forms and non-standard controls. Numbers are reinforced with non-numerical values unless an understanding of mathematics is a requirement for the using this content.
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The sentence on adding non-numerical increases confusion about the SC and increases problems with interpretation across different cultures. For example, a 60 degree day would be cold to Jan, but would be delightfully warm to me. The SC is much stronger and clearer without it, especially where we are not giving a quality evaluation, just whether or not the information exists. Recommend deleting the final sentence: "Where an understanding of mathematics is not a primary requirement for using this content, reinforce numbers with non-numerical values." |
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@jspellman That is a real problem Jeene as that s the only accommodation we have for dyscalculia Also in your example the site knows the context. it can say " normal for this time of year" etc. I can not off hand think of a case that this is a real problem |
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Hi Lisa - I don't necessarily agree that taking the last sentence off means that we are not addressing the needs of people with dyscalculia. The first part of the statement says that Content is provided that helps users understand an array of various types of information, including numerical information. I think that the last sentence could be converted into a technique, or perhaps we could add additional information in a use case or in a glossary term. I definitely understand the importance of bringing dyscalculia to light. Most people don't know what it is and some researchers are now thinking that it may be as common as dyslexia, so it is important that it be addressed. |
The original issue can be found at the following address: w3c#32
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If u want make the last sentence a separate sc, in a separate pull request. Just deleting it is not an option that will get consensus on cogaAll the bestLisa SeemanLinkedIn, Twitter---- On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 02:30:00 +0200 Jan McSorley<notifications@github.com> wrote ----Hi Lisa - I don't necessarily agree that taking the last sentence off means that we are not addressing the needs of people with dyscalculia. The first part of the statement says that Content is provided that helps users understand an array of various types of information, including numerical information. I think that the last sentence could be converted into a technique, or perhaps we could add additional information in a use case or in a glossary term. I definitely understand the importance of bringing dyscalculia to light. Most people don't know what it is and some researchers are now thinking that it may be as common as dyslexia, so it is important that it be addressed. —You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.
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As part of the consensus process, the following sentence was removed from Provide Support (line 828): "Where an understanding of mathematics is not a primary requirement for using this content, reinforce numbers with non-numerical values." As this SC moves forward, this phrase needs to be reevaluated and discussed with the WCAG group because it specifically addresses the needs of people with dyscalculia. The original Help issue can be found at the following address: w3c#32.
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See my suggestion above to split it
That should address it
All the best
Lisa Seeman
LinkedIn, Twitter
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@mbgower Adding keywords - is realy identifying them so they can be bold or highlighted. this helps people find the content they need. I know you might not think 300 words is very long but it is for slow readers and other people with LD. It is OK if there is an overlap with a AAA item. Having items as techniques at AAA is not very helpful. we are trying to make a testable SC that can be more widely applied. |
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@patrickhlauke happy to change the Description . I agree with adding better examples as well. I think we need some semantics for the modality of an explination! An example of people who do not know their left from right are again , many dyslexic people. SO GPS navigation systems that say turn right, there is a 50 percent chance they will turn right. Giving an image or allowing them to personlize the terms solve the issue (such as turn to the passenger side) |
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Not trying to be critical, but in many countries "turning to the passenger side" would result in a left-hand turn: England, Ireland, India, Australia, South Africa as well as much of the Caribbean. Therefore, I do not think that this is a good example. Additionally, this SC appears to suggest that authors should instead provide Cardinal Directions (North, South, East and West), which could be interpreted as stating that a GPS system, instead of voicing "turn left" would instead voice "turn east". I am sure this is not what this SC is requesting (as it appears to me that there would be an equal chance that some users would remain confused), yet as proposed it could be interpreted that way. Additionally, while customization of a GPS device's audio output seems to be a reasonable request, I question what this example has to do with "Web Content"? We need to be careful as not being seen as attempting to boil the ocean, and we should keep our examples focused on web content and web delivery platforms. |
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John you map the term to the word you want |
The original issue can be found at the following link: w3c#32 SC Numerical Content added under Context-Sensitive Help, within the Understandable Principle and under the Predictable Guideline Glossary Term added: non-numerical value
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Updated the issue description to reflect the FPWD text and reopening issue. |
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new wording (done with Jan) based on feedback: define "simple referencing of whole numbers": using a decimal positive integer without additional calculations or fractions to do: research on long document size |
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new proposed wordimg For long documents, numerical information, relative and cardinal directions, multi page forms and non-standard controls one of the following is provided Charts, tables or graphics are provided to aid the comprehension |
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Help and support: comprehension support for long documents, complex numerical information, and directions is available via charts, tables, or summaries; emphasis of key words; instructions for non-standard controls; or information about a user's position in multi-step forms. (michaels proposal) definition of complex numerical information: numerical informaion other than simple numbers and decimiles |
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you need to define “comprehension support”
what does it mean exactly
if you mean the list in the SC then it should be
Help and support:
for long documents [ALL?? ONE??] of the the following are true
charts, tables, or summaries are provided for any complex numerical information, or directions
key words are emphasized
non-standard controls have instructions;
multi-step forms provide information about a user's position in the form.
definition of complex numerical information:
numerical information other than simple numbers and decimals
you also need to define long document — and then I wonder why short documents don’t need to be understandable?
also needing definitions
Key words
non-standard controls
complex directions
I am also worried that this looks like a shotgun approach that just captures a bunch of techniques (all good advice but not good as SC)
g
… On May 23, 2017, at 2:17 PM, Lisa Seeman ***@***.***> wrote:
Help and support: comprehension support for long documents, complex numerical information, and directions is available via charts, tables, or summaries; emphasis of key words; instructions for non-standard controls; or information about a user's position in multi-step forms.
(michaels proposal)
definition of complex numerical information: numerical informaion other than simple numbers and decimiles
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Here's a try: Help and support:For long documents one of the the following is true:
For forms, the following are true:
Here's a stab at some definitions: |
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concerns with this SC I appreciate the goal - but this is one where we have lots of issues to resolve I think. As worded
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Despite the fact that the SC is very understandable in its motives the additional content as a simplified version of the original will probably never make it as a AA level as this will place such a burden on the whole development process that we'll see lots of resistance. In summary there is relevance in inclusive user experience and optimal usability for all but this should be the basis of every design, not an extra on the side. This solution as it is right now is too broad and as a best practice AAA for now.
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based on the survey coments and the coga call yesterday Comprehension support is available via one or more of the following:
For directions: Alternative terms are available for relative and cardinal directions. There are exceptions where:
Definitions: |
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This is from Jan who is having touble with github today.. Instructions for nonstandard controls (3.3.2 - A): Information about a User’s Position in a Multi-step Form (2.4.8 - AAA):and Keywords (3.1.3 - AAA): and • The fact that it’s AAA and cannot be applied to all content is the reason that we need to have headings as an option for large blocks of text unless we reword them Also Keywords (3.1.3 - AAA): |
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As per discussion on todays call I changed the wording to "Comprehension support is available for the following:" |
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I have a small comment on the last exception:
I think the word "real" needs to be dropped here, or at least replaced with a different adjective. Real has a very specific meaning in mathematics to distinguish from imaginary or complex numbers. |
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Lisa,
Can you please clarify what is meant by
- real numbers are present and do not require math operations or
calculations to understand the meaning of the numbers
I'm really not sure what is exempted by this. Would tax software (for the
general public to complete their tax returns) fit into this exemption for
example?
…On Thu, 8 Jun 2017 at 10:38 Lisa Seeman ***@***.***> wrote:
As per discussion on todays call I changed the wording to "Comprehension
support is available for the following:"
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For directions: Alternative terms are available for relative and cardinal directions. |
Current versions of SC and Definitions
SC Shortname:
Provide Support
SC Text
Content is provided that helps users understand complex information, long documents, numerical information, relative and cardinal directions, forms and non-standard controls.
Suggestion for Priority Level
AA
Related Glossary additions or changes
Cardinal Directions:
Points of the Compass (North, South, East and West)
Long Documents:
300 words or more
Complex Information:
Something with at least three parts where at least two of those parts interact with each other in multiple ways.
What Principle and Guideline the SC falls within.
Principle 3, Guideline 3.3 - Input Assistance
Description
The use of complex information, long documents and data in a particular format and the use of non-standard controls in Web forms can present significant barriers to users with cognitive accessibility needs. The intent of this Success Criterion is to ensure that navigation, operability and the ability to complete tasks associated with a website is fully understandable and accessible to people with cognitive accessibility needs through the provision of context sensitive help, tooltips and explanation of jargon. For example:
The main reason for the upgrade in the conformance level is to ensure that user needs are consistently addressed across the different disabilities.
Note that graphics should be clear and it should be easy to identify meaning and context. The ability to "read between the lines"; of a text, graphic, or lecture may seem obvious to many users without cognitive accessibility needs but it may create barriers for people with autism, who may not be able to readily discern the intended relevance of graphical data.
Further use aria-describedby to associate the graphic or sections of a graphic or chart and the text that describes it can be read by a screen reader while the right section of the chart is highlighted.
Benefits
The benefit to users with cognitive accessibility needs is that the information in the help is presented in a way that it is understandable and therefore supports the user in accessing the information or service which would otherwise be too complex for them to consume. This Success Criterion addresses two broad classes of issues associated with this type of information:
While providing clarity and accessibility is of benefit to all users it is of particular benefit to a wide range of users with differing cognitive accessibility needs including users with:
Providing comprehensive help not only benefits users with diverse cognitive accessibility needs but also benefits any user who is unfamiliar with the material and therefore the benefits are not restricted to a relatively small subset of users.
The user needs are more fully described in the User needs Table.
Please review the following user needs table
Also see our Background research document
Related Resources
Resources are for information purposes only. No endorsement is intended or implied.
“Accommodating-ASD-In-STEM.pdf”. Nathan W . Moon, PhD Robert L. T odd, M S David L. Morton, PhD Emily Ivey, M S (You can download it from John's Dropbox account at http://bit.ly/18wev76.)
See http://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/about-dyslexia/further-information/dyslexia-style-guide.html
Garrett, K. L., Beukelman, D. R., & Low-Morrow, D. (1989). A comprehensive augmentative communication system for an adult with Broca's aphasia. Augmentative & Alternative Communication, 5(1), 55.
Top Five Instructional Tips for Students with Down syndrome" http://specialedpost.org/2013/01/31/top-five-instructional-strategies-for-students-with-down-syndrome/
"Down syndrome and Learning" http://inclusive.tki.org.nz/guides/down-syndrome-and-learning/
Phiriyapkanon. Is big button interface enough for elderly users, P34, Malardardalen University Press Sweden 2011
Neilson Norman Group article: Pop-ups and Adaptive Help Get a Refresh by Katie Sherwin on March 15, 2015 - http://www.nngroup.com/articles/pop-up-adaptive-help/. Present help content in a small modeless overlay window. Provide a link to more detailed information if available. Alow user to minimize, resize and move the window. What about small screens?
Testability
This Success Criterion can be tested manually.
Test Procedure
Techniques
Sufficient techniques for icons and jargon
Ensure one of the following techniques are used:
Sufficient techniques for content relating to numbers and complex information. (use whichever apply)
However as some people have difficulty remembering symbols, use text with the symbol.
Sufficient techniques for content with more than 300 words
Sufficient techniques for forms
Sufficient techniques for non-standard controls
For relative and cardinal directions (North, South, East, and West),
For key content and call out boxes (this might belong to another SC)
Failure Technique: Adding a star next to key content as that does not help the user to understand the context of the key content.
Working groups notes (optional)
This is the short name for the SC (e.g. "Non-text Content" is the short name for SC 1.1.1 in WCAG 2.0)
Test Procedure was changed. original was:
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: